Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 17:20:10 -1000 From: marklift1@aol.com (MARKLIFT1) Message-Id: <32uk1a$o4v@search01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* In article <32to5l$pf3@rc1.vub.ac.be>, plepez@vub.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) writes: That he can pull axels with his left hand but not his right. I have the same problem which doesn't make sense to me since I'm right handed. Maybe because I suceeded with the left first? I know others who are better with their right and others yet who can axel with either arm. Is there a reason why a right handed person can axel better with his left hand? Mark V = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:49:54 -1000 From: steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) Message-Id: Organization: VisionAire, San Francisco, CA Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* Philippe Lepez (plepez@ulb.ac.be) wrote: : Hi all, : I finaly succeed to hit what I would call a "belly down axel take off". : Basicaly the kite is belly down, nose away from you (normal belly launch : position). You pull/tug on one line, the rigth amount is critical. : The kite lift from the ground, turns belly down, just like in an axel. : After one complete rotation (if you are lucky or good), you can steer it : just like in a normal belly launch and launch. To me, it realy looks : neat. : Is it a new move, or do I have re-discovered an old wheel ? It's a new move, in that, you're the first one I've heard actually pull it off. I've tried to do this myself, but to no avail. Congratulations! (A marketing tip: give your move a catchy name ;-)! ) : Can one of our master give tips to succeed the move all the time. I'm : not pretty shure that there is only one hand pulling and my hit rate : is far from 100! I easily get lines tangled or fail to have one : complete rotation. (Kite used : my modified Ultral in no wind condition) Well, I don't really have any tips for you, except that you might try this with a kite that axles a bit easier (viz. an XTC). But then again, you're the expert! :-) -- _______ Steve Thomas steveth@netcom.com "Consequences, shmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." -- Daffy Duck = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 09:24:37 -1000 From: plepez@vub.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) Message-Id: <32to5l$pf3@rc1.vub.ac.be> Organization: Brussels Free Universities (VUB/ULB), Belgium Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* Hi all, A general reply to so much posts. First, I forgot to mention that no wind conditions means for me *short* lines, about 4.5 meters. Kevin : The rotation is 360 degrees or even a bit more, all this belly down. The 3 difficulties (at least my failure modes ;-) are 1) achieve enough rotation, 2) not get the lines tangled in the LE or spine, 3) not pull to hard which will put the kite on its back. The move is definitively at least in two step : get the kite off the ground and rotating 360 degrees and then the real take off. I don't know if in fact the first part is divided in two, a hop and then a pop or if the two are combined. I believe they are combined. Steve : I'm definitively no expert. I have to low a hit rate and I'm even not able to analyze what I'm doing to be able to get the move better and explain other how to do it. Now, you know it can be done, I'm sure you'll get it soon. The hard part in performing an axel with the Ultral is to stall the kite, in no wind it is not to uneasy ;-). I have nothing to market so maybe the net can give us a good name. Brad and Ron : I have the feeling that what Ron is referring to as the Turtle Launch is as describe by Brad and by Ron Reich in its book on page 46 another move. Now Ron can tell us which move is its turtle launch. I think that in the belly axel launch the real launch is performed with the same hand that started the rotation. But I'm really bad in analyzing what I'm doing. For instance, I know how to perform an axel (from Bert, Steve, Kevin and Lee's explanation). I can pull axels with my left hand, but it is really hard for me to pull a good axel from my right hand. Good winds. Philippe. -- Philippe Lepez (CP 125), | | Good kite Universite Libre de Bruxelles, | Email: plepez@ulb.ac.be | + Good wind 50 av. Roosevelt, | Phone: 32.2.6503553 | ---------------- 1050 Bruxelles, Belgique. | Fax : 32.2.6503323 | = A lot of fun ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 10:36:49 -1000 From: kevin@hawaii.edu (Kevin Mayeshiro) Message-Id: Organization: University of Hawaii Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* Philippe Lepez (plepez@ulb.ac.be) wrote: : Basicaly the kite is belly down, nose away from you (normal belly launch : position). You pull/tug on one line, the rigth amount is critical. : The kite lift from the ground, turns belly down, just like in an axel. : After one complete rotation (if you are lucky or good), you can steer it : just like in a normal belly launch and launch. To me, it realy looks : neat. Could you give a little more detail about the move. When you mention "one compete rotation", does the kite perform a 360 degree rotation and end up pointing away from you again, belly down? And at that point execute a belly lauch, by pulling on both lines to reverse the kite and then pull on one line to turn it up/out? The other move I envision is the kite performing a 180 degree rotation so the the nose is pointing toward you, then pulling on both lines to launch the kite. I've done this while trying to figure out the belly launch/magic carpet move. - Kevin -- When posting, please keep quoted material to a minimum. rec.kites archive: ftp.hawaii.edu:/pub/rec/kites mirrors: ftp.uni-bremen.de:/pub/kites, ftp.funet.fi:/pub/misc/kites = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 05:18:34 -1000 From: plepez@ulb.ac.be (Philippe Lepez) Message-Id: <32qlca$3cd@rc1.vub.ac.be> Organization: Free University of Brussels Subject: A new (?) move in *no wind* Hi all, I finaly succeed to hit what I would call a "belly down axel take off". Basicaly the kite is belly down, nose away from you (normal belly launch position). You pull/tug on one line, the rigth amount is critical. The kite lift from the ground, turns belly down, just like in an axel. After one complete rotation (if you are lucky or good), you can steer it just like in a normal belly launch and launch. To me, it realy looks neat. Is it a new move, or do I have re-discovered an old wheel ? Can one of our master give tips to succeed the move all the time. I'm not pretty shure that there is only one hand pulling and my hit rate is far from 100! I easily get lines tangled or fail to have one complete rotation. (Kite used : my modified Ultral in no wind condition) Good winds. Philippe. PS. Icarex is made out of polyester and not polycarbonate as I thaugh. -- Philippe Lepez (CP 125), | | Good kite Universite Libre de Bruxelles, | Email: plepez@ulb.ac.be |+ Good wind 50 av. Roosevelt, | Phone: 32.2.6503553 |---------------- 1050 Bruxelles, Belgique. | Fax : 32.2.6503323 |= A lot of fun ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 09:54:01 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <330e8p$4rh@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* Philippe Lepez (plepez@ulb.ac.be) wrote: >: I finaly succeed to hit what I would call a "belly down axel take off". Nifty. I don't remember if I've pulled that particular move off, but I don't think so. Here's something related, though. It's a launch I've done a couple of times (ie no consistency yet...) with a *quad* Ultra: Basically, it's what you describe, an axel launch directly off the ground, but in this variation, the kite makes one full circle, pops the nose up, and ends up in a tip-stand. It's pretty neat looking... Thom Powers and I were talking about this move and he said that he'd done it to, but also didn't know how to do it with any consistency (this was a couple of months ago. For all I know, he could be doing 'em on demand by now) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 10:01:57 -1000 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <330enl$56r@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* In article <32uk1a$o4v@search01.news.aol.com> marklift1@aol.com (MARKLIFT1) writes: >That he can pull axels with his left hand but not his right. I have the >same problem which doesn't make sense to me since I'm right handed. Maybe >because I suceeded with the left first? I know others who are better with >their right and others yet who can axel with either arm. Is there a reason >why a right handed person can axel better with his left hand? For what it's worth, I learned to axel with my left hand, even though I'm right handed. I can axel virtually any kite with either hand, though I have trouble axeling 3/4 Tracers with my left hand. There's a trick I do with that kite, related to the axel but rather different, which I learned...hmm, must be going on almost two years ago. I'm still not sure exactly how the execution differs from the axel (though I do know I throw both of my hands forward in the middle of the move), but visually the moves are quite different. In any event, I first learned this particular trick with my left hand, and always had trouble doing it with the right. Now I find that I can axel that kite better with my right hand, because when I try with my left hand, more often than not I get my own move instead of a traditional axel. Very odd. Basically, it comes down to practice. I'm a terribly assymetric flyer, and I really had to struggle to learn to do things like right-handed axels or 3-D rev flying where I catch and throw the kite with my left hand. I can catch and throw with either hand, but it's not much to look at when I'm using my left hand. Interestingly, despite being a righty, I am *much* better at flying a Rev with just my left hand than with just my right hand. This is attributable, I'm sure, to the fact that I learned one-handed flying through manipulation of both handles during 3-D tricks (where I virtually always manipulate the kite itself with my right hand, and the handles with my left). Jeff (wondering if anybody else out there has axeled a Hawaiian Team Kite... ;-) -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 20:53:31 -1000 From: plepez@ulb.ac.be (Philippe Lepez) Message-Id: <33hf5b$889@rc1.vub.ac.be> Organization: Free University of Brussels Subject: Re: A new (?) move in *no wind* Hi all, There was no wind this week-end, so I played a lot with my axel belly down launch. Definitively, it is a kite dependent move. Last week-end, just after my first success, I stop flying because one of my flexor has punch through its pocket. So I repaired the kite and got it ready for this WE. Saturday, I had no success. Whatever I tried, it failed. So I went to the idea that something had changed in the kite. But what? So Sunday I had an idea : take one flexor off. And there it goes, immediately the axel belly down launch was there ! I pulled out the other flexor and it still was there. But without its flexor, the kite was hard to fly in no wind, always following its nose when it was aimed at the ground and then crash... Now the move. The kite must be belly down, just like for a regular magic carpet. Imagine you will pull the move with your left hand. You place the wing tip lying at your right about 15-20 degree away from you. I take care to place my bridle against the standout/lower spreader attachment. In the case of the Ultral it is really close to the spine (about 25 cm from the spine). Then with your left hand pull, from in front of you to your left side (about 60cm). It is a move quite similar to the one I use to spin stall a kite. The kite will take off and turn. You must let both lines slack and walk backward, because the kite will come to you. After more than one rotation, when the kite is about 20 degree with its wing tip at your right closer to you than the left one, pull both lines and fly in the normal way. In fact the move is best accomplished when walking backward you re-establish tension on the lines at the precise moments you should have pulled. The pop-hop is much higher and the move more easy to perform when you pull the line to the height of your shoulder. The difference in behaviour of the Ultral with or without its flexor is crazy. If you try the move with both flexor in place the kite seems to jump at 2 or 3 meter from the ground, its belly facing you, just like if you had launched it in the regular way. I hope you can make some use of this description. If you can, please do rewrite it in a better English. I also like that some people having knowledge in aerodynamics give an explanation of the impact of the flexor on the behaviour of the Ultral and maybe suggest a way to have a kite able to do the move and easy to fly in no wind. Good winds. Philippe (who will soon be in holidays at le Touquet and Dieppe :-))and would be please to meet you there). -- Philippe Lepez (CP 125), | | Good kite Universite Libre de Bruxelles, | Email: plepez@ulb.ac.be |+ Good wind 50 av. Roosevelt, | Phone: 32.2.6503553 |---------------- 1050 Bruxelles, Belgique. | Fax : 32.2.6503323 |= A lot of fun ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =